"Statistically, only 11% of mothers are nursing after 24 months. So maybe all three of us freaks roll up with janky toothed toddlers..."
I suspect that is a big part of what is going on here. Doctors see so few nursing toddlers that they are quick to attribute a myriad of ills to what seems to them to be the big variable.
I would also imagine that out of that 11% of nursing moms, quite a few might not even mention that they are still nursing to their pediatrician. I nursed my youngest until she was almost 3; but I don't recall our pediatrician even asking about it and I am pretty sure I didn't volunteer that information as it didn't seem terribly relevant as there were no health concerns other than she was mildly anemic (I have also been mildly anemic my whole life, and I was 100% bottle fed so I think in our case it is genetic). My point being that out of the already low number of moms nursing toddlers, doctors probably only are only aware of a fraction thereof - and are thus more inclined to think "hey, we saw another janky-toothed kid six years ago, and that mom was also one of those breastfeeding hippies...it MUST be the breastfeeding!"
By the way, my husband was a janky-toothed toddler who had eleven cavities at his first checkup; and he was 100% bottle fed from the time he was born. He is now a janky-toothed adult despite his conscientious brushing/flossing habits; whereas I didn't even go to the dentist for five or six years and when I finally remembered to get a checkup, my teeth were perfect and they congratulated me on what a good job I was obviously doing flossing (even though I pretty much never floss). Some people just have more durable teeth than others, it seems - thankfully, our kids all inherited my indestructible enamel and not their dad's!
One of my pet peeves is pediatricians giving parenting advice. They are “experts” on how bodies work and health problems. They did NOT go to medical school and learn all about the science behind sleep training, time out, spanking, self soothing, etc. If you ask your ped what expertise they have in behavior, they will tell you it is based on their own parenting and their “experience” with seeing kids in their clinic (because the short, medically focused appointments every now and then are definitely giving a well rounded view of a child’s home life and behavior). 🙄
Honestly, I have a lot of frustrations with peds, which is why we don’t generally see one, but this is probably the worst. Because they are experts in medical health, they are granted this glow of authority. Then parents, in a vulnerable place because of illness (or even just the power dynamics of a well visit), are subjected to the pediatrician’s personal opinions about sleep training, breastfeeding, and whatever else the ped decides to confidently asset without evidence. I’ve talked to SO many parents who do stuff like sleep training, solely because their pediatrician said it was the best. If they have a question about their toddler having tantrums, they run to the ped, whose opinion is truly no more informed by evidence than your grandmother who had 8 kids.
But the ped must know what he’s talking about- he’s a doctor! Yep, and my mom, a well-respected OB of 30+ years, occasionally asks my advice on breastfeeding problems. They aren’t taught much about lactation in med school, we have a dearth of LCs in my area, and she knows I’ve nursed for 7 years between the kids so far, and have read a ton of books, journal articles, gone to LLL meetings, etc. Sometimes I just want to scream for people to crack a book, listen to talks by actual experts (guarantee Dr. Humphries has done more research on vaccines than your average ped), trust your gut, etc. and make up your own opinion. Docs aren’t the end all, be all of knowledge. They are simply human beings with a lot of schooling in very specific areas.
Yup, pediatricians are experts in sick babies/children and that's it. Anything outside of this area of expertise, and all you are getting is their opinion, which may not have any value at all.
I had one pediatrician try to lecture me about early literacy. I’m a children’s librarian with an MAT in Early Childhood Ed and an MLIS, but she actually argued with my response. I like and respect most of the pediatricians we’ve interacted with, but the overreach is bizarre to me as someone in a related field.
My anger at your providers is only matched by my laugher. THANK YOU. This is the funniest and sassiest mom-stack in the land. Also, I once had a doctor say to me (male, no children by choice): "If he's old enough to ask for it, he's too old." I was like, "He doesn't really ask though...just walks over and lifts my shirt up."
The only medical professional who has ever applauded me for nursing past infancy (I let my kids self-wean so my 4.5 year old and 23 month old are still going at it currently) was a myofunctional therapist. She said that breastfeeding is excellent for jaw development and since jaw/bite issues run in my family, it could only help my kids to nurse them. I really appreciated that perspective!
All the more reason to really be your own advocate when it comes to health. My dad is a physician and so I know firsthand how reticent many practitioners are to be open to new info or to something they’ve “never seen before.”
I enjoyed reading this one very much. I hope this reaches moms that need to hear it. Also, so happy to hear everything turned out okay!
My 15 month old doesnt do a whole lot of chewing when eating so as typical worried first time mom I reached out the “experts.” And when they found out we co sleep and he nurses to sleep they pushed that I let him learn “how to self soothe”??? Like what does that have to do with my son’s chewing skills😐. They’ve still to come after the breastfeeding (he’s still within America’s acceptable age for breastfeeding range lol).
I could echo so many of these sentiments with my own daughter whom I nursed until she was 4 and had gnarly constipation around 18months (rejected miralax and made her gut my entire personality) and then also enduring an epic cavity nightmare that is a true disaster and they, too, blamed extended nursing. Wild!! I didn’t know anyone else had this particular experience.
But it's SO EASY to blame breastfeeding for everything when you don't understand how it works, why it's important, how it impacts a mother's lifetime breast health, etc. It's seems so easy to flippantly tell someone to "Just pump!" or "Just throw away your milk!" or "Just use formula!" when you literally do not have the information to understand how that will impact the person.
I have so many feelings!!! We had to switch pediatricians when my son was 1 because he wasn’t into solids and I was told the problem was breast feeding. At 1!! If I hadn’t been very sure of myself, I absolutely would have caved. Luckily, the rest of my doctors were supportive and we found a great pediatrician after that who didn’t bat at eye at nursing until almost 4. Before having a kid, I naively assumed pediatricians would all be supportive of breast feeding because the science seems so simple and clear.
I can’t even go to a ped anymore. The combination of ignorance and arrogance was not a good one. Between pushing formula/ignorance about breastfeeding and pushing vaccines about which they are also ignorant (and many other things- like asking me to get in the car and bring a tiny new baby while I’m also very freshly postpartum to an appointment?) ughhhhhhjh. I just stopped going all together. We don’t need a doctor much but we have a naturopath for our PCP that feels more like a collaborator than an authority figure.
I fully reject the “authority” and “expert” opinions of these medical charlatans. They’ve been wrong too many times for me to place trust there.
I also find dentists have no idea about the way teeth remineralizing and how much children inherit their minerals from their mothers. I have had a few friends whose babies teeth crumbled because they were so weak. It wasn’t because of not brushing teeth or breastfeeding - their kiddos were born with a less than full quiver of mineral reserves. It’s a pretty recent practice to brush little baby teeth.
And if your baby has teeth that seem like they are chalky or weak, especially right in the front, check to see if they breathe with their mouth open at night. When the teeth are not protected by saliva in a closed mouth they do not remineralizing properly. Are their teeth really close together and slanted inward with no spaces in between? Good change they are mouth breathing because their jaw is too small and thus so will be their airway.
It's so disheartening that our medical community is so disconnected from the spirit of it all. No one on earth questions the goings on of nature - we don't scrutinize when an elephant weans her young, or how a bird feeds her nesting babes. It is self-evident that breastmilk is superior, is natural, is god-given.
I'm an 11% er, breastfeeding my 3 year old and 18 month old, and it has been quite a journey and I am SO ready to be done with my older one, but he is not, so we compromise and work on it together. This journey is so sacred. It's disgusting what culture has done to it.
I feel that I should tell you honestly for myself I wouldn’t tell the doctor that I was nursing a toddler unless I had to. And you might even more lonely than you are for that reason.
Constipation as a result of nursing is a ludicrous idea. Completely ludicrous.
Unspoken part: I’m not going to change my mind about cosleeping, no matter how many fear-mongering pamphlets you give me, and you aren’t going to change your mind, even if I give you a copy of Dr. McKenna’s “Cosleeping and Biological Imperatives” or the stats on lower rates of SIDS… so let’s not waste each others time.
Omg I had to read to the end to find out if you had cancer!
I am also having problems brushing my kid's teeth. Haven't brought him in yet to hear the bad news but I don't feel good about it and he will surely need some fillings in 2025.
He loves to "brush" and "floss" but he doesn't do it well and he has a meltdown about me doing it. Usually I give him a lot of independence and I really like the skills and confidence that has built so it is hard for me to hold him down and brush while he screams "no this is baby job". I dont do it often or often enough.
Got a water pit thinking it would help... basically same issue.
I hear you; I really do. I breastfed my three for a total of 10 years between them (and #1 baby weaned himself around 12 months old so do the maths for the other two children). The total and complete ignorance of the medical profession around anything to do with breastfeeding is disgraceful beyond words. No wonder those of us who are breastfeeding children operate on a don't ask, don't tell, need to know basis.
All that sleep training does is teach children that their mothers are unreliable caregivers, and the world is not a safe place. And the last thing that the world needs is more disconnection between mothers and babies. This is the foundational relationship of every human society, and any disassociation causes problems that are difficult, if not impossible, to fix later on.
Do you mind sharing what you’re doing for your daughters cavities? My 2 year old has 4 and his front teeth are decaying and our dentist also blamed night feeds 😭 I’ve been so upset about his teeth and not sure what to do. I feel like it’s my fault .
We ended up getting paint on silver treatments. It stops the cavities from growing but also turns the cavities dark black 🙃 so my kiddo has large black spots on her teeth until she gets her adult ones.
Do you know if your kiddo sleeps with their mouth open at night? Does your kid have spaces between their baby teeth or are they all close together?
My son is a mouth breather and has this problem with his teeth. The front teeth are the ones that are exposed to the air all night when they have their mouth open. Then the teeth don’t remineralizing because they are not moist with saliva.
He is a mouth breather ! What have you done for him? I am also a mouth breather but now I use mouth tape at night but don’t think that’s an option for a 2 year old 😂
I found an airway dentist and he will need an appliance (like a retainer) that needs refitting every month or so for about a year. After that point his jaw should have enough room for his permanent teeth and his airway will have expanded.
Mouth tape won’t help if it’s a structural issue, though maybe your situation is milder than ours. I also tried mouth tape. My kid fully breathes through his mouth though, not just at night. Do yourself a favor and find an airway dentist. I tried a lot of other things first trying to figure out why he breathes through his mouth and now he’s almost 5 and I have to get a move on with this soon.
We got the same schtick about my oldest child’s dental health and breastfeeding. We got a second opinion and soooo glad we did. Turns out she had cavities but did not need crowns or to be put under in an operating room. She got gas, novocaine and regular schmegular composite fillings. I nursed my oldest until she was 5.5. My second child who is 3 now nurses still and then my youngest who is 7 months old. I’ve been breastfeeding non stop through pregnancies and tandem nursing at times also for 6.5 years now. No regrets. Thank you for sharing this cause I feel sooo alone in these decisions sometimes. ❤️❤️
My heart breaks for you. What lazy medical professionals. Lazy and cruel. You are incredible for holding your ground. It’s so hard to speak up in situations like that - why should WE have to educate the people who are supposed to know more than us? Supposed to help us? It makes me worried to see a doctor about anything! If I know more about breastfeeding (simply from reading 1 book, breastfeeding two kids, and following breastfeeding social media accounts) than a DOCTOR who’s supposedly studied for years and years… then what ELSE don’t they know about?! Good grief would it be so hard for them to read the singular breastfeeding book that I’ve read?!
"Statistically, only 11% of mothers are nursing after 24 months. So maybe all three of us freaks roll up with janky toothed toddlers..."
I suspect that is a big part of what is going on here. Doctors see so few nursing toddlers that they are quick to attribute a myriad of ills to what seems to them to be the big variable.
I would also imagine that out of that 11% of nursing moms, quite a few might not even mention that they are still nursing to their pediatrician. I nursed my youngest until she was almost 3; but I don't recall our pediatrician even asking about it and I am pretty sure I didn't volunteer that information as it didn't seem terribly relevant as there were no health concerns other than she was mildly anemic (I have also been mildly anemic my whole life, and I was 100% bottle fed so I think in our case it is genetic). My point being that out of the already low number of moms nursing toddlers, doctors probably only are only aware of a fraction thereof - and are thus more inclined to think "hey, we saw another janky-toothed kid six years ago, and that mom was also one of those breastfeeding hippies...it MUST be the breastfeeding!"
By the way, my husband was a janky-toothed toddler who had eleven cavities at his first checkup; and he was 100% bottle fed from the time he was born. He is now a janky-toothed adult despite his conscientious brushing/flossing habits; whereas I didn't even go to the dentist for five or six years and when I finally remembered to get a checkup, my teeth were perfect and they congratulated me on what a good job I was obviously doing flossing (even though I pretty much never floss). Some people just have more durable teeth than others, it seems - thankfully, our kids all inherited my indestructible enamel and not their dad's!
One of my pet peeves is pediatricians giving parenting advice. They are “experts” on how bodies work and health problems. They did NOT go to medical school and learn all about the science behind sleep training, time out, spanking, self soothing, etc. If you ask your ped what expertise they have in behavior, they will tell you it is based on their own parenting and their “experience” with seeing kids in their clinic (because the short, medically focused appointments every now and then are definitely giving a well rounded view of a child’s home life and behavior). 🙄
Honestly, I have a lot of frustrations with peds, which is why we don’t generally see one, but this is probably the worst. Because they are experts in medical health, they are granted this glow of authority. Then parents, in a vulnerable place because of illness (or even just the power dynamics of a well visit), are subjected to the pediatrician’s personal opinions about sleep training, breastfeeding, and whatever else the ped decides to confidently asset without evidence. I’ve talked to SO many parents who do stuff like sleep training, solely because their pediatrician said it was the best. If they have a question about their toddler having tantrums, they run to the ped, whose opinion is truly no more informed by evidence than your grandmother who had 8 kids.
But the ped must know what he’s talking about- he’s a doctor! Yep, and my mom, a well-respected OB of 30+ years, occasionally asks my advice on breastfeeding problems. They aren’t taught much about lactation in med school, we have a dearth of LCs in my area, and she knows I’ve nursed for 7 years between the kids so far, and have read a ton of books, journal articles, gone to LLL meetings, etc. Sometimes I just want to scream for people to crack a book, listen to talks by actual experts (guarantee Dr. Humphries has done more research on vaccines than your average ped), trust your gut, etc. and make up your own opinion. Docs aren’t the end all, be all of knowledge. They are simply human beings with a lot of schooling in very specific areas.
Yup, pediatricians are experts in sick babies/children and that's it. Anything outside of this area of expertise, and all you are getting is their opinion, which may not have any value at all.
I had one pediatrician try to lecture me about early literacy. I’m a children’s librarian with an MAT in Early Childhood Ed and an MLIS, but she actually argued with my response. I like and respect most of the pediatricians we’ve interacted with, but the overreach is bizarre to me as someone in a related field.
My anger at your providers is only matched by my laugher. THANK YOU. This is the funniest and sassiest mom-stack in the land. Also, I once had a doctor say to me (male, no children by choice): "If he's old enough to ask for it, he's too old." I was like, "He doesn't really ask though...just walks over and lifts my shirt up."
The only medical professional who has ever applauded me for nursing past infancy (I let my kids self-wean so my 4.5 year old and 23 month old are still going at it currently) was a myofunctional therapist. She said that breastfeeding is excellent for jaw development and since jaw/bite issues run in my family, it could only help my kids to nurse them. I really appreciated that perspective!
Likewise. And the same dentist/myofunctional therapist that applauded extended breastfeeding also downplayed the importance of brushing...?
Sometimes it looks as if doctors are basically winging their practice. Definitely not to be taken too seriously.
All the more reason to really be your own advocate when it comes to health. My dad is a physician and so I know firsthand how reticent many practitioners are to be open to new info or to something they’ve “never seen before.”
I enjoyed reading this one very much. I hope this reaches moms that need to hear it. Also, so happy to hear everything turned out okay!
My 15 month old doesnt do a whole lot of chewing when eating so as typical worried first time mom I reached out the “experts.” And when they found out we co sleep and he nurses to sleep they pushed that I let him learn “how to self soothe”??? Like what does that have to do with my son’s chewing skills😐. They’ve still to come after the breastfeeding (he’s still within America’s acceptable age for breastfeeding range lol).
I could echo so many of these sentiments with my own daughter whom I nursed until she was 4 and had gnarly constipation around 18months (rejected miralax and made her gut my entire personality) and then also enduring an epic cavity nightmare that is a true disaster and they, too, blamed extended nursing. Wild!! I didn’t know anyone else had this particular experience.
But it's SO EASY to blame breastfeeding for everything when you don't understand how it works, why it's important, how it impacts a mother's lifetime breast health, etc. It's seems so easy to flippantly tell someone to "Just pump!" or "Just throw away your milk!" or "Just use formula!" when you literally do not have the information to understand how that will impact the person.
I have so many feelings!!! We had to switch pediatricians when my son was 1 because he wasn’t into solids and I was told the problem was breast feeding. At 1!! If I hadn’t been very sure of myself, I absolutely would have caved. Luckily, the rest of my doctors were supportive and we found a great pediatrician after that who didn’t bat at eye at nursing until almost 4. Before having a kid, I naively assumed pediatricians would all be supportive of breast feeding because the science seems so simple and clear.
I can’t even go to a ped anymore. The combination of ignorance and arrogance was not a good one. Between pushing formula/ignorance about breastfeeding and pushing vaccines about which they are also ignorant (and many other things- like asking me to get in the car and bring a tiny new baby while I’m also very freshly postpartum to an appointment?) ughhhhhhjh. I just stopped going all together. We don’t need a doctor much but we have a naturopath for our PCP that feels more like a collaborator than an authority figure.
I fully reject the “authority” and “expert” opinions of these medical charlatans. They’ve been wrong too many times for me to place trust there.
I also find dentists have no idea about the way teeth remineralizing and how much children inherit their minerals from their mothers. I have had a few friends whose babies teeth crumbled because they were so weak. It wasn’t because of not brushing teeth or breastfeeding - their kiddos were born with a less than full quiver of mineral reserves. It’s a pretty recent practice to brush little baby teeth.
And if your baby has teeth that seem like they are chalky or weak, especially right in the front, check to see if they breathe with their mouth open at night. When the teeth are not protected by saliva in a closed mouth they do not remineralizing properly. Are their teeth really close together and slanted inward with no spaces in between? Good change they are mouth breathing because their jaw is too small and thus so will be their airway.
It's so disheartening that our medical community is so disconnected from the spirit of it all. No one on earth questions the goings on of nature - we don't scrutinize when an elephant weans her young, or how a bird feeds her nesting babes. It is self-evident that breastmilk is superior, is natural, is god-given.
I'm an 11% er, breastfeeding my 3 year old and 18 month old, and it has been quite a journey and I am SO ready to be done with my older one, but he is not, so we compromise and work on it together. This journey is so sacred. It's disgusting what culture has done to it.
I feel that I should tell you honestly for myself I wouldn’t tell the doctor that I was nursing a toddler unless I had to. And you might even more lonely than you are for that reason.
Constipation as a result of nursing is a ludicrous idea. Completely ludicrous.
And co-sleeping. People who co-sleep often will not share about it.
Me at the ped, back when I went to those:
“Does she sleep by herself in a crib?”
“She has a safe sleep space, yes.” 😉
Unspoken part: I’m not going to change my mind about cosleeping, no matter how many fear-mongering pamphlets you give me, and you aren’t going to change your mind, even if I give you a copy of Dr. McKenna’s “Cosleeping and Biological Imperatives” or the stats on lower rates of SIDS… so let’s not waste each others time.
🎯
Omg I had to read to the end to find out if you had cancer!
I am also having problems brushing my kid's teeth. Haven't brought him in yet to hear the bad news but I don't feel good about it and he will surely need some fillings in 2025.
He loves to "brush" and "floss" but he doesn't do it well and he has a meltdown about me doing it. Usually I give him a lot of independence and I really like the skills and confidence that has built so it is hard for me to hold him down and brush while he screams "no this is baby job". I dont do it often or often enough.
Got a water pit thinking it would help... basically same issue.
I hear you; I really do. I breastfed my three for a total of 10 years between them (and #1 baby weaned himself around 12 months old so do the maths for the other two children). The total and complete ignorance of the medical profession around anything to do with breastfeeding is disgraceful beyond words. No wonder those of us who are breastfeeding children operate on a don't ask, don't tell, need to know basis.
All that sleep training does is teach children that their mothers are unreliable caregivers, and the world is not a safe place. And the last thing that the world needs is more disconnection between mothers and babies. This is the foundational relationship of every human society, and any disassociation causes problems that are difficult, if not impossible, to fix later on.
Do you mind sharing what you’re doing for your daughters cavities? My 2 year old has 4 and his front teeth are decaying and our dentist also blamed night feeds 😭 I’ve been so upset about his teeth and not sure what to do. I feel like it’s my fault .
We ended up getting paint on silver treatments. It stops the cavities from growing but also turns the cavities dark black 🙃 so my kiddo has large black spots on her teeth until she gets her adult ones.
Do you know if your kiddo sleeps with their mouth open at night? Does your kid have spaces between their baby teeth or are they all close together?
My son is a mouth breather and has this problem with his teeth. The front teeth are the ones that are exposed to the air all night when they have their mouth open. Then the teeth don’t remineralizing because they are not moist with saliva.
Sometimes! On the whole, she sleeps with her mouth closed but once or twice week, in the early morning she will breathe through her mouth.
Interestingly the mouth breathing thing can contribute to gut dysbiosis that can cause the digestive stuff.
He is a mouth breather ! What have you done for him? I am also a mouth breather but now I use mouth tape at night but don’t think that’s an option for a 2 year old 😂
I found an airway dentist and he will need an appliance (like a retainer) that needs refitting every month or so for about a year. After that point his jaw should have enough room for his permanent teeth and his airway will have expanded.
Mouth tape won’t help if it’s a structural issue, though maybe your situation is milder than ours. I also tried mouth tape. My kid fully breathes through his mouth though, not just at night. Do yourself a favor and find an airway dentist. I tried a lot of other things first trying to figure out why he breathes through his mouth and now he’s almost 5 and I have to get a move on with this soon.
Good luck!
I have heard of that as well ! Might end up going that route myself
We got the same schtick about my oldest child’s dental health and breastfeeding. We got a second opinion and soooo glad we did. Turns out she had cavities but did not need crowns or to be put under in an operating room. She got gas, novocaine and regular schmegular composite fillings. I nursed my oldest until she was 5.5. My second child who is 3 now nurses still and then my youngest who is 7 months old. I’ve been breastfeeding non stop through pregnancies and tandem nursing at times also for 6.5 years now. No regrets. Thank you for sharing this cause I feel sooo alone in these decisions sometimes. ❤️❤️
My heart breaks for you. What lazy medical professionals. Lazy and cruel. You are incredible for holding your ground. It’s so hard to speak up in situations like that - why should WE have to educate the people who are supposed to know more than us? Supposed to help us? It makes me worried to see a doctor about anything! If I know more about breastfeeding (simply from reading 1 book, breastfeeding two kids, and following breastfeeding social media accounts) than a DOCTOR who’s supposedly studied for years and years… then what ELSE don’t they know about?! Good grief would it be so hard for them to read the singular breastfeeding book that I’ve read?!
I’m in awe of your resilience. Well done 👏